Andesine Update

JTV LOL, WHO WOULD BUY FROM THEM NOW???? FOOL ME ONCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with you that jtv looks like a big winner again, saw them
on tv, i believe it was a may 30 airing, showing the red and green
andesine being sold as rare once again. the infamous blond jtv
sales girl, the one who always gulps looking for words when a lie
is being told, stating how valuable they were and if you buy one,
you would get a second red andesine-labradorite free. how you
needed to jump on this deal asap! what a crock of bull. these folks
never quit with the lies and deceitful ploys. Folks, i doubt anyone
will actually get their money back and i'm sure you will get back
only a fraction what you invested. i'm holding my breath, fingers
still crossed because i too was one of those suckers who bought
into their rap.what a shame these people operate a business. scam!

ur screwed no matter how you look at it. JTV makes out like bonkers
& then some. so, folks it looks like they WIN,WIN,WIN no matter
how the beans are spilled

ANGRY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY NOT REFUNDING ON YELLOW
LABRADORITE? If the red and green andesine start out from the
yellow labradorite, then that means that the yellow is much much
more abundant than JTV has said. That would mean that all of it
started from the yellow, and it is very plentiful. I had bought up
at least 65 carats, or more of the yellow, because they stated it's
rareness. They refuse to refund me for the yellow, and that is just
not right, since they were always talking about how rare it was,
and Cheryl was always saying to buy it up. They should refund us on
the yellow labradorite as well. What do others think?

The comment that JTV is selling andesine for the same or higher
price should give you confidence in the value of the stone is not
true. JTV will take a big loss in their books if they cannot resell
it. They already had to lay off over 700 hundred employees over
that last eight months because of the down turn in business. I'm
sure there were several conversations with their lawyers on the
phrasing of the 'treatment' of the stones before they got the green
light to turn around and resell it. And if they sold the stones way
below the original costs it would send the message that the stones
have no value. So as long as JTV is covering themselves as to the
wording, they will set the price for whatever the market is willing
to bear - what you are willing to pay.

I have to agree with alot of what Alice Grim commented on. I was
not aware of any JTV's offers of take backs or the class action
until last week. The settlement options do not look good, you'll
lose money on your purchase or have to spend more money with JTV to
get 'refunded'. The key is: are these stones worth anything? And
that depends on the treatment and what the 'natural stone' was
before the treatment. I.e. heat treatment is one thing, copper
diffusion with the possible yellow feldspar found in Mexico is
other. That means these stones have almost no value (from what I've
read so far on the web). In fact, these 'rare' stones sold in the
mass quantities that they were are now being coined 'TV Andesine'.
Good Luck to all but the winners here seemed to be JTV in this
case.

OMgosh....I bought red andesine from JTV a couple of years ago. I
don't remember where they said it was from but I do know they said
it was very rare. I also purchased some green labradorite. Is there
anything to worry about that as well? Now, what can I do about it?
I am not a gemologist or anything, just someone who likes gemstone
jewelry and the like. Someone please let me know what to do. I am
pretty sure my andesine did not come from the USA!

OMgosh....I bought red andesine from JTV a couple of years ago. I
don't remember where they said it was from but I do know they said
it was very rare. I also purchased some green labradorite. Is there
anything to worry about that as well? Now, what can I do about it?
I am not a gemologist or anything, just someone who likes gemstone
jewelry and the like. Someone please let me know what to do. I am
pretty sure my andesine did not come from the USA!

Has anybody heard the court csae went on this week? I haven't heard
a peep about it yet.

Alice Grim seems confused. JTV offered to take back all Andesine
months before any class action suits were filed or were over. The
settlement of the class action suits was an agreement to take back
up to 1 million dollars worth of Andesine and JTV started selling
Andesine again immediately, properly labelled. So as an owner of
Andesine you can keep it. The fact that JTV is now selling it again
for the same or higher price than before should give you confidence
in the value of the stone. Or you can turn it in and get your money
back. Further, if you remember, for more than a year JTV did not
know where Andesine came from. When they did find the source, they
found that it was heated. Up to that time they had been told it was
natural and they had no way to verify that and had sent samples out
to labs. Net out - either you believe the stone still has value
(you can't complain if JTV can sell it at the same price) or you
don't. What is there about not playing fair if it has the same
value in your hands as it does in their hands?

To anyone that has concerns on returning their
andesine/labradorite, Now it doesn't make sense that there is a cap
on the returns for the settlement. If the returns reach 1 million
or something like that. the people loose more than what they think.
JTV still is able to sell the andesine that everyone returns and we
loose. How is this fair. They are in a win/win situation. As far as
I can see they sold over a million dollars worth of andesine and
they know that it will reach the amount that was in the settlement
that they can give a lesser value than everyone hopes for. I looked
at the identification certifications and it does not state that the
stones are natural and untreated. Where did they get this
observation to say that they had proof of natural and untreated.
People need to take a closer look at the cert's. also, the
companies that did the cert's state that they are not liable for
any lawsuits to them for their misrepresentation of the gemstones.
How clever. I can't believe that they are selling the stones before
they have reached a settlement agreement. They will be making
double. first when they sold the gemstones originally and then the
ones that are returned they will sell them for more than what they
sold them for originally. How are they hurting from this. What a
crock of bull. Does anyone else smell something fishy...also the
court system that resides over the Proceedings is located in the
state that the JTV is LOCATED. Tennessee makes tax dollars from JTV
for having their company in their state. CONFLICT OF INTEREST. The
proceeding should have been held in a state that does not have a
stake in the company's tax revenues that JTV has to pay yearly. On
the other hand if you do not have the money to pursue this yourself
you will receive nothing. they have large pockets and the lawsuit
will drag on until the consumer runs out of money to fight the big
bad wolf... It is like you are stuck doing exactly what JTV wants
you to do. Give back the stones so they can sell them again...They
are hoping that it will blow over and they will go back to selling
the stone because RED STONES ARE SCARCE DUE TO THE IMPORT BAN ON
BURMA GOODS. AND THEY KNOW THAT EVERYONE LOVES RED STONES. THEY ARE
NOT PLAYING FAIR. THEY JUST THINK THAT THE CUSTOMERS ARE JUST FOOLS
AND MOST OF THEM ARE. THEY ARE COUNTING ON IT. THEY SAY THAT THEY
ARE WANTING TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC ABOUT GEMSTONES...HOW ABOUT THE
WAY THEY ARE SELLING THE TOOLS. GETTING A REFRACTOMETER DOES NOT
IDENTIFY A GEMSTONE JUST BY LOOKING AT IT AND SEENING THE NUMBER IT
SHOWS. THEIR ARE ALOT OF FACTORS INVOLVED...BIFRENGENCE ETC...DO
THEY EVEN TELL THEM THAT....IF YOU COULD JUST PICK UP AN INSTRUMENT
AND IDENTIFY A STONE THEIR WOULD NOT BE A NEED FOR EDUCATION IN
GEMOLOGY. HEY JUST BUY THE BOOK AND YOU ARE AN EXPERT......GEM ID
MADE EASY......EASY TO BE A FOOL.....

As of today, JTV has posted for sale 546 SKUs of
Andesine-Labradorite . Each SKU is a category with the same price
and a quantity of equivalent gemstones for sale. It would appear
that JTV is requalifying and now correctly designating returned
gems as "color enhanced/diffused" and reselling them. Many of the
prices are higher than they originally sold for. Many are the same
price. There is an abundance of green and cherry red, orange-red,
and orange in all sizes. This is at least a partial affirmation
that Andesine is still a marketable gem, at least in JTVs opinion.

I received an e-mail from JTV regarding a proposed settlement and
settlement hearing. They are supposed to send me a claim form and I
can return my gemstones for a full refund. Haven't had the claim
form yet but unsure whether or not to return them. Do I wait till
the settlement goes through or send them now? Very confused about
all this. I bought them as an investment and now I'm not sure if
they are worth it. If you send them back are they worth more or
less than I bought them for. I know they will give me a full refund
on what I paid for them but what if they are worth more now. Would
I get the difference?

I received an e-mail from JTV regarding a proposed settlement and
settlement hearing. They are supposed to send me a claim form and I
can return my gemstones for a full refund. Haven't had the claim
form yet but unsure whether or not to return them. Do I wait till
the settlement goes through or send them now? Very confused about
all this. I bought them as an investment and now I'm not sure if
they are worth it. If you send them back are they worth more or
less than I bought them for. I know they will give me a full refund
on what I paid for them but what if they are worth more now. Would
I get the difference?

FWIW --- IMHO ---- just consider the stone a heavily treated and
manipulated stone. What are heavily treated stones worth? Yes it is
pretty --- but keep this in mind when you try and judge its value.
*** Proud Member of GemBusters***

So are the stones worth what they are being sold for? How does one
find the actual price per carat for these stone? Thank you for your
assistance.

The red and green andesine being sold today is a natural gemstone,
found in China (just where in China we are not sure - yet). Its
original color was most likely a pale yellow, and through heat and
quite possibly the addition of elemental copper, the color has
changed from that pale yellow to a nice saturated orangey-red, or
green. This color treatment is called "diffusion." So while the
gemstone is not man-made, the color most likely is. We will be
reporting on the latest progress in the identification of possible
color enhancements in just a few days.

Boy, I more confused than ever! I was in the process of sending
back my red and green andesine to JTV but now I'm not sure. My red
stones are that nice cherry color and I do like them but are the
they nothing more that a man made gem?

Boy, I more confused than ever! I was in the process of sending
back my red and green andesine to JTV but now I'm not sure. My red
stones are that nice cherry color and I do like them but are the
they nothing more that a man made gem?

I have checked Jewelry Television's inventory of
Andesine-Labradorite for sale and it has gone up from 24 SKUs to 98
SKUs in a few days. They are definitely selling in large scale
again and including 'orange red' along with 'cherry red' as
desirable. By example prices for 11mmx9mm, 2.25ct to 3.0ct are
going for $300 to $350. They have green ,too. It looks like this
'Frankenstone' has come back to life.

red andesine labradorite so I decided to try and return the
individual stones I purchased. To my surprise, JTV's cust. serv.
dept. with no questions asked took all my information on each stone
and with a week I had returned prepaid postage for UPS. I received
a full refund including my initial shipping from when I purchased
the gems. I can't argue with that! Eventhough Cheryl called the
yellow labradorite andesine labradorite, they were not accepting
these back other than their normal return policy which had long
expired. I have those in my mixed facets as well, so if an issue
comes up, I'll try to return my single stone, hopefully again with
no problems. I have returned more than I have kept from JTV and I
know you get what you pay for. However for most of us I think JTV
is kind of like the lotto; most of us play, knowing we won't win
(in this case probably won't get gem quality stones), but are
forever hopeful that one day we will. I know that I would never be
able to pay the high prices from a gem dealer (If I knew how to
find one and if they would even give me the time of day) and JTV
knows that is true of the majority of us. This is how they stay in
business. Most of us want something to hand down to our kids, can't
afford real world prices and thus JTV makes a mint off of us
wishful fools, just trying to give something nice to ourselves or
our family.

Gary Roskin, I'd like to thank you for helping me decide on the
andesine labradorite I purchased from JTV. I purchased mixed facets
from them in the past containing both green &

As of today this is the first time I have seen Andesine again for
sale on Jewelry Television. It is titled Andesine/Labradorite and
the description says it is "color enhanced/diffused". Prices are
above what they were previously selling for.

JTV only announced that the stones were heated, and it is now
fairly certain that a lot more than that happened with this
material. It is copper diffused. Has JTV ever made that
announcement? No. Have you (or anyone else) actually seen any of
the reports of stones JTV allegedly had tested? No. Have they ever
gone back on the air and told people that they were duped, and
offered refunds to all? No. Has any other network selling this
frankenstone made any announcements? No. Have the labs that issued
reports for this material ever come out and said they were
mistaken? No. Are people still selling this frankenstone to
unsuspecting customers as natural, or in an effort to continue
selling it simply stopped saying it was natural and untreated and
allowed customers to believe (by this omission) that nothing had
changed? You bet. It's time for the industry to come clean. Anyone
can make a mistake, it's how you own up to it that matters. Many in
the industry still treat it as their dirty little secret, and
that's why they can't be trusted and why people continue to make a
stink.

Just a clarification for those of you reading about andesine lab
reports. The gemological laboratories produce "gem identification
reports" on many gem materials. These are the laboratory's
"opinions" of what the gems may be, and how they may be treated.
Two very important notes: First - The laboratory DOES identify
andesine as a "natural gem material," but as for any treatment, the
lab will only state "no evidence of enhancement/treatment." This is
unfortunately taken by many people to mean "no treatment, natural
color," which of course is not the case. It just says that the labs
do not see anything to suggest that the stone has been treated.
Second - The use of the words "treatment" and "enhancement" are
used by many to mean the same thing, when in truth, the treatment
is what is done to the stone to attempt to improve the color, the
clarity, or the stability of the gem material. Enhancement is the
improvement of these things. So a gem may be heat "treated," but
described as color "enhanced." I hope this helps.

GemGeek- Seems you want something for nothing. Investor- Apparently
JTV actually had tested many stones at labs. They came back
natural. It was only when JTV themselves found out about the
heating that they made the announcement. Since then they have been
demonized by platform standing feel gooders.

I just wanted to Say I have been an unsatisied Customer of JTV for
11 years now.I hate it when I buy what I thought was A1 Top Quality
Stones (AS they Show on TV)but when I get them they look like they
have been ran over buy the MAC truck they were delivered in.But I
have some very Great ones that I would never part with at all. I
even bought 45 ct. Ametrine on the show it was gorgous. But when I
recieved it, it was no where close to the carat weight it should
have been. The stone was about 25 carats and the Split was not
50/50 more like 80/20 but the Colors were Rich and Dark.I did have
to send it back for Refund and My Heart was broken.I never found
another one that big since. I am also torn I love JTV.But I send
way to much back then I keep......What a Shame!

I just wanted to Say I have been an unsatisied Customer of JTV for
11 years now.I hate it when I buy what I thought was A1 Top Quality
Stones (AS they Show on TV)but when I get them they look like they
have been ran over buy the MAC truck they were delivered in.But I
have some very Great ones that I would never part with at all. I
even bought 45 ct. Ametrine on the show it was gorgous. But when I
recieved it, it was no where close to the carat weight it should
have been. The stone was about 25 carats and the Split was not
50/50 more like 80/20 but the Colors were Rich and Dark.I did have
to send it back for Refund and My Heart was broken.I never found
another one that big since. I am also torn I love JTV.But I send
way to much back then I keep......What a Shame!

I have watched JTV for years. I purchased alot of the red and green
labradorite from them. Because of their comments about the
labradorite andesine being the next paraiba tourmaline, I purchased
red and green labradorite from other people as investments. I have
spent thousands of dollars in investment money. The main thing that
I am unhappy with JTV is that they did not check out the stone
before they sold it on JTV. They are the largest seller of stones,
so they say. If so, why did they not check it out before they sold
the andesine labradorite. I am torn because I like JTV but now I am
not sure I can trust them. Have they checked out all the other
stones they sell to make sure they are natural or treated in any
way? I will need to go through my jewelry and stones and see about
returning the labradorite andesine. Thank you all so much for your
comments about the labradorite andesine.

Hi Confused, The answers to these questions can sound confusing,
and so you are not alone. Andesine belongs to the Feldspar Group,
which includes: Albite, Andesine, Anorthite, Anorthoclase,
Banalsite, Buddingtonite, Bytownite, Celsian, Dmisteinbergite,
Hyalophane, Labradorite, Microcline, Oligoclase, Orthoclase,
Paracelsian, Plagioclase, Reedmergnerite, Sanidine, Slawsonite,
Stronalsite, and Svyatoslavite. You of course, see Labradorite in
here as well as Andesine. They are very similar in chemistry and
are not easy to seperate. And you can have gems that are actually
several minerals that have grown together. Each stone is an
individual, and should be identified. But whether Andesine or
Labradorite, or a combination of both, it can still be a very
pretty gemstone. However, if you are dissatisfied with your
purchase, you can always contact the company and let them know you
wish to return your purchase.

I couldn't be more confused at this point. I purchased red/green
andesine labradorite from jtv. After reading all this, I only have
4 pieces left to return. I was trying to purchase gems that may
someday have greater value, something to pass down to my kids. I'm
not rich and don't have extra cash to throw out the window.
Thankfully they are not giving me a hard time about returning it
but I still don't like being taken advantage of. HOWEVER, what
about the yellow labradorite. I have Cheryl on tape calling it
yellow andesine labradorite. She said even though they have
labradorite posted, it has the same chemical make-up as
andesine/labradorite and is yellow andesine labradorite. Is jtv
allowing it to be returned as well? Do I keep this? I have quite a
bit of yellow, do I keep it? Is it andesine/labradorite like Cheryl
said? I rechecked my tape and she specifically states more than
once that the yellow labradorite is andesine/labradorite. Any
suggestions?

I posted this the other day on GemBusters C.H.A.R.M. and it seems
relevant here as well: I am kind of simple ----- or rather
simplistic ---- seems like a good many lapped the cream off the top
of the container (benefits of the industry) and left the sour milk
for someone else to clean up or dispose of (the issues/scandals )
but way to many orgs./groups seemed to point the finger of
responsibility anywhere but in their own direction. Time for the
all (from end purchaser all the way back to ore/stone finder) to
form a circle and point to the right and eventually it comes around
full circle for EVERYONE to pitch in and clean it all up. IMHO.

SELLER BEWARE! According to FTC Regs, the SELLER is legally
responsible to compensate the BUYER for any treated gemstone that
was not properly disclosed as to that treatment, at the time of
sale. The argument by the SELLER that he/she had a lab report/Cert
or didn't know ABOUT THE TREATMENT does not relieve that
responsibility.

SELLER BEWARE! According to FTC Regs, the SELLER is legally
responsible to compensate the BUYER for any treated gemstone that
was not properly disclosed as to that treatment, at the time of
sale. The argument by the SELLER that he/she had a lab report/Cert
or didn't know ABOUT THE TREATMENT does not relieve that
responsibility.

{cont} “N” or natural only if it is not enhanced or not
currently known to be enhanced. (I hope I got that right.) A
gemstone report, by any lab will have a disclaimer, stating that
the report is an educated opinion so they are not liable if the
information is not exactly correct. So even if this treatment is
confirmed by the powers that be, what recourse does the consumer
have? Who is going to stop the “cheaters” who are
looking for new ways to enhance gems and intentionally not disclose
the treatment to buyers who will pass the gem along with the
disinformation. I only see this problem getting worse, as no one
feels it is their responsibility.

According to the FTC, a gemstone is natural as long as it is not
man-made or synthetic. So by their standards these enhanced gems
are natural. If going by the AGTA standards a gemstone is called
“

You know, I still like my red and green andesine- Does anyone know
if they arre worth what i actually paid for them (between $40-100
carat)If they are, i'd like to keep them- if they are simply pretty
colored glass "gems" them I guess they should go back...

Hi Just Curious, Well, what an interesting week it has been. We
have read International School of Gemology Robert James' latest
report, and Colored Stone Magazine David Federman's report on
Robert James' report. We have looked at the comments referenced in
the CS Magazine report made by Ted Themelis in Bangkok, Dr. Lore
Kiefert at the AGTA Gem Testing Center in New York, and Dr.
Emmanuel Fritsch from the Institut des Matériaux in Nantes,
France, all of whom agree that something is strange with andesine.
Themelis has spoken numerous times about new enhancement techniques
used in Thailand which could possibly be involved... Kiefert notes
that James' images show something that they have not yet seen in
the lab... and Fritsch comments that their testing results show
something unnatural. I sure do wish that someone would actually
confirm Robert James' report of what I will call "external
diffusion." Dr. Rossman at Cal Tech says that the proving of what
ever has taken place has not yet been resolved... even after
reading James' reports and after months of studying samples. When
Beryllium diffused sapphire entered this country, we knew that the
sapphires had been enhanced, but the actual process itself took a
long time to be determined. And then once determined, it took even
longer for the labs to figure out a way to identify them when
stones came into the lab for identification. As secret as
enhancement recipes are, I am not surprised that it is taking what
seems to us like forever to get confirmation of enhancement. This
one stone's enhancement may very well be the straw that finally
causes the gem labs to throw up their hands in frustration and
claim, as many have already stated before, that gems are either
considered "messed around with," unless proven "natural," instead
of innocent until proven guilty.

Well, if I am not mistaken, there is no doubt now as to the
treatment status of Andesine. Having read several press releases
there is no doubt in my mind anyway. And still no word yet from the
"pretty intelligent folk"? I can't help but wonder why the holdup.

I agree!!!! JTV has refunded my money for ALL Andesine items I
purchased (several thousands of dollars). They even sent postage
paid stickers to use!!! Their customer care representatives were
cordial, pleasant and as helpful as one could hope for. I have NO
complaints and will continue to be a loyal customer to a company
who stands behind their product in such stellar fashion. Their lay
offs were quite unfortunate, but the economy in this country is to
blame, NOT ANDESINE.

I bought many andesines from JTV past 3 years. When I contacted JTV
and expressed my concern about Andesine news, they are willing to
refund the returned items. Their customer service is OUTSTANDING! I
am impressed.

Did anyone else see a possible connection with this! I wonder if
JTV has close affiliation with this china company? The host have
boasted that they are the original finders of the YELLOW
LABRADORITE IN MEXICO, RIGHT? THEY WERE LOOKING FOR FIRE OPAL.
REMEMBER THOSE COMMENTS? Here is the comment I was refering to: by
Chris Rose. (I was at a chinese red labradorite/andesine dealer at
the GJX show in Tucson. They had table after table full of
thousands of cherry red and green andesine/labradorite. I know the
mine owner of the yellow labradorite mine in Mexico. Last year, he
sold over 30,000 kilos of yellow labradorite to a Chinese company.
When I was telling him about all the tables of andesine/labradorite
I saw at a chinese dealers booth. He asked me if they had any
yellow labradorite. I told him I didnt see any. He was very
surprised and then told me that very company was the one that
bought all his yellow lab.) THE 64,000 QUESTION IS WHEN DID JTV
REALLY KNOW OF THE TREATMENTS? DO THEY HAVE THEIR HANDS MORE DIRTY
THAN ANYONE EVER EXPECTED?

The answer to your question is unfortunately, it depends. Red
sunstone can be rare. Depending on the quality, including
transparency as well as any special characteristics the specimen
has, price can range from $100 to nearly a $1000 or more per carat.
High quality larger pieces currently have strong market potential.
These pieces are sought by the better known American cutters and
transformed in pieces of art. Whether price will increase or
decrease is dependant on many factors in play in the market. If the
market is faced with new deposits that increase supply or fashion
trends change leading to decline in consumer desire, prices can
drop. If supply is enough to generate interest but not enough to
saturate the market, prices tend to climb. It is difficult to know
the price performance of any given stone from a long term forward
looking perspective. (I know plenty of people that purchased homes
a few years ago that aren't worth those prices today.) The number
one reason to buy any gem is that you like it!

I am so confused. I have researched this whole subject, and no one
agrees on anything. I am aware that this fact is already covered in
the blog. What I want to know is does bright red Labradorite from
Oregon (sunstone) hold a lot of value? I mean is that intense red
from Oregon considered rare? Does it have the potential to go up in
value over time, or is it so plentiful that it's unlikely? I can't
find the answer to this question. Thanks for your thoughts.

It is my understanding that this material has been in the process
of testing since May 2006. I understand that these experts have
other things to do but I am staying tuned and eagerly await any
information.

Hi "Just Curious," Yes, the andesine question is much more
difficult than the tanzanite coating identification. Several issues
confuse the identification process: 1.) is there enough copper
already in the yellow feldspar to cause color after heating? 2.)
What temperatures and for how long does this heating need to take
place? 3.) Is there any external copper being introduced and if so,
how? 4.) if only a small percentage of the yellow feldspar changes
after the enhancement process, do the scientists have rough
material that will change after they do their experiments, or were
they given material that will not change, even if the enhancement
process is performed correctly? 5.) has there been enough discovery
at the mine sites in the Congo, Mexico, Tibet, and Mongolia? 6.) if
the enhancement process takes three months as was rumored in
Tucson, how many times will these guys have to experiemnent before
they get the process right? And I'm sure there are more questions
than I can think of. So patience is the name of the game. Stay
tuned.

It has now been over 3 months since this article has been
published. Any word yet from the "pretty intelligent folk"? Seems
andesine must be a harder nut to crack than tanzanite. That coating
determination must have broken lab records.

I have written a new article about the treatment of andesine
(andesine-labradorite). I have indisputable photographic proof
there is at least some treated labradorite that is being marketed
as natural red andesine. I suspect the vast majority of red
andesine is treated. The article is posted here:
www.jewelcutter.com/articles/andesine_scam.htm Even with amount of
information that is now public I am sure there are some people who
will continue to believe that andesine is all real. Regards, Gary
Kratochvil San Antonio, TX

From my sources, the final word on the orangey-red
Andesine/Labradorite Feldspar is still yet to be determined. I
would suggest the following: Country of Origin undeterminable.
Color origin unknown. And until the verdict is in, I'm not so sure
what if any affect there will be on replacement value. Since you
are appraising it today, to replace it today would be values set by
the wholesale selling prices seen in Tucson, along with your
standard mark-up for your market. The Gem Guide should have current
wholesale values for you. One comment on clarity: I have not seen
any of this material with a clarity of SI-I1. You mention growth
lines, and to me, this could mean uneven color instead of a clarity
characteristic.

OK, so I just got a pair of orangey/Red trillian cut
Andesine/Labradorite on my desk to appraise and from all I've read
so far here, I unclear what to call it. The owner tells me it's
Tibetian although I'm extremely reluctant to write any kind of
origin when I can't prove it. It may be proveable but at this time
I'm unclear how. What is this worth high/low 12x12 pair?
Retail/wholesale The stone appears to be SI - I1. with growth
lines. Any takers?

Gary-Thank You For Your Response. I too hope that there are no
vested interests nor conflicts of interest regarding this issue.
The Science Should Be Allowed To Prevail over the necessity to
buffer the industry from (Loss Of Face)! I have deep concerns over
the CHINA Connection in all of this. Also---there is additional
information posted as part two in the series (and is stunning) on
the ISG YourGemologist Site.

Hi Lili, Gemology and the identification of gemstone enhancements
has become a huge challenge for the desk gemologist. It was early
in this decade when the jewelry industry was flooded with
incredibly beautiful sapphires, all incorrectly labeled as being
only heat treated. It took several laboratories, using extremely
sophisticated and very expensive pieces of equipment (AGTA, GIA,
CalTech, & Chrystal Chemistry,) in order to figure out just
what it was that made these sapphires so vibrantly colorful. They
were identified as beryllium diffusion treated. Since then, we
realize that we all must wait for those who have the equipment to
do all of the testing necessary in order to come to the right
conclusion. It's fun for those of us who have some gem equipment
and a microscope to talk about what we've found in the andesine
we've tested. But to jump to a conclusion prior to hearing from
these other labs is currently not the best process. By the way, the
three research laboratories currently testing andesine have not to
my knowledge ever been involved in or accused of any scandals. So
again, have patience. These laboratories do not buy or sell
gemstones, and are only interested in finding out the truth.

Ahhhh....sunstone, andesine, labradorite...and mystery
localities.... I've been in the gem, mining. mineral biz for over
40 years now and this is the first time I've been aware of such
contraversey re: locality, treatments etal....and going on for such
a long time! This is truly strange in this industry. The good news
is that the Oregon Sunstone (labradorite) is totally natural with a
wonderful range of colors. I work with Oregon sunstone from the
Dust Devil Mine every day and never tire of its unique
qualities....and NATURAL colors and copper inclusions. It is a
pleasure to work with such a unique and NATURAL gem! Hopefully, in
the coming months, the 'other' feldspars and the mystery locations
will be figured out and the truth will surface. Bottom
line....hooray for OREGON SUNSTONE! The Dust Devil Mine is open for
fee dig at this time and there are some awesome RED gems being
unearthed.

Gary---isn't that the same Foxes that have watched the hen house
and helped GIA through numerous SCANDALS. Perhaps the time has come
for a more open process that is UNFLAVORED by the God in the
Heavens Position of the GIA? What is the old saying that Absolute
Power Corrupts Absolutely. Seems that same wait and see attitude is
what enabled this industry to get in the condition that it is in.
This is just a humble hobbiest/and revolted consumers opinion after
3 months of research. So in that period of time I could UNCOVER
these things---Seems the others having this much time will be able
to COVER things! Like there collective sitter oners!

Thank you all for your posts and your interest. Even after reading
several posts on the JTV sight as you have suggested, I will still
patiently await the findings from Dr. Rossman at Cal Tech, Dr.
Shigley at GIA Research Lab, and Dr. Emmett, at Crystal Chemistry.
While I appreciate everyone's efforts to uncover the truth about
andesine, I am very interested to hear from those three doctors
above who have the equipment to measure chemistry, and actually
test enhancement theories. We all need a little patience -
especially knowing that the enhancement recipe given was a three
month process. So please, if you have andesine, wear them and enjoy
them. We will certainly post any information on any findings as
soon as we have something to report. And as for posting your
comments here, we appreciate your contributions, but please treat
everyone with respect. As I have been reminded many times, if you
cannot say something nice about someone, it is best not to say
anything at all. Thanks all.

I agree with Snap, but I think the opposite is true. I don't post
to the JTV Blog because of The JTV Friends...maybe that's what Snap
meant. Their leader is a real strange bird, and I think it's her
daughter that posts weird long things that you can't understand. As
a matter of fact they both do. If you want to fear someone I think
that's the group to be leary of. have you seen those reviews - talk
about Kool-Aid drinkers!

SNAP SNAP SNAP---Nothing like re=running and old post with the same
old stale false statements. JTV blog is open to all and is run by
JTV. Dust off your WANGS and Fly Home. Gary the New information
comming out is really mind boggling!!!

I am re-posting this to the update. Gary, I don't know if you have
seen it yet, but you need to check out the ISG newsletter that just
came out today. Big news from Robert James about Andesine
Labradorite. The newsletter was mailed to subscribers, and is not
on the ISG website. If you don't get this, you can go to the JTV
blog dated 4/16/08 and it is posted there. Happy reading!

Sorry, but no one has been harrassed by MySpace group and JTV has
an OPEN BLOG, where anyone can post anything. MySpace Group/Junkies
only have sought to find out the truth about this gemstone and has
said so many, many times. There is a post by one of them this
afternoon CLEARLY stating they did NOT want this information about
the andesine/labradorite to turn out to be true or to harm JTV.
They are former loyal customers who wanted to find out their ole
trusted JTV was right all along. Unfortunately, the information
doesn't seem to lend itself to that conclusion.

Why blame the whistle-blower? Why not focus on companies still
selling Andesine as "untreated" -- many are! Including HSN! Why is
the "myspace" group JTV JUNGKIES out to ruin JTV? They are on the
BLOG & will not let any other customers comment without getting
harassed. Many customers in JTV FRIENDS have been harassed for
appreciating the JTV announcement and still buying Andesine. Does
this REALLY mean we can no longer purchase & appreciate this
gem? Why is this group harassing other JTV customers as well as the
group on FACEBOOK, Jewelry Television Friends? And WHY are they
"taking shifts" on the Jewelry Television Blog" so that NO ONE is
able to say anything but them? I am even receiving email that is
abusive from the group. I'm really not certain how many Jewelry
Television customers agree with them on this issue. I just
purchased a gorgeous Andesine, it's beautiful & I think it's a
cool color, but if I review it, I will pay for it!!!! They will
make fun of & demean me on the JTV BLOG & put down a group
that supports many small jewelry businesses and artisans. It's
getting out of hand.

h t t p : / / w w w .
jewelcutter.com/articles/images/andesine-flux-inclusion.jpg

for anyone that is interested, we have pictures showing yellow
labradorite before treatment and then one month after copper
diffussion treatment, then 2 months and finally 3 months. We also
have a picture of of a flux inclusion in a faceted stone that was
sold as natural and said to be from Congo. The flux went into a
deep void in the stone and was not completely ground away by the
faceter.

There is natural red andesine or labadorite from Tibet. I did get a
couple of pieces of rough from the owners of the Tibet mine last
year and they gave me lots of details on production. The production
figures were very small for all types of labadorite. In not way
could they be the source. I have tried heating (to only aprox 800C)
oregon and madagascar material and a friend has tried the same with
Mexican to no avail so there has to be other methods used, possibly
HTHP and or diffusion. This year 2 larger suppliers admitted to me
that they "heat" the material. Basicly, in the gem trade, there are
no secrets. If we can not buy rough and can not locate the mine
than it does not exist. I did tell JTV last year that I believed
they were being duped but they chose to ignore my warnings. I also
believe that the congo location exists, and i have been told by a
congolese friend that he could take me there, however politics and
output does not come close to satisfying the quantity on the market
today. If 1 + 1 does not equal 2 which it does not then we have a
problem. By the way ... anyone try to buy large blue zircon rough
lately - I am looking for a source - lots of fine blue zircon on
the market in good sizes. Where does it come from?? Does 1+1=2???

Mr. Roskin, I have seen you give kudos to JTV for finding and
revealing the supposed source for their "andesine/labradorite" and
advising other dealers to do the same. I have read your opinions
concerning full disclosure and dealing with only verifiable,
reputable mining sources. All of these things are meant to improve
the image and trust factor of the gem and jewelry industry. What I
have not heard you or anyone else do is hold JTV responsible for
their less than sterling sales tactics or the fact that they keep
selling this gemstone as rare when Mr. Rose and others keep
describing the amount of material that was available at Tucson. JTV
also keeps telling their customers that the yellow labradorite
coming from Chihuahua Mexico is very rare and has not been seen in
the industry for over thirty years until this find discovered
approximately 2 years ago, etc. If you have not tuned in lately,
please try to catch one of their gemstone shows, in particular one
hosted by Dawn. Mr. Roskin, I know you are not the industry watch
dog, but if you want to talk about improving the industry's image,
perhaps some of the focus should go to the world's largest loose
gemstone dealer (JTV's words). I want to thank Chris Rose and Jeff
Graham for being willing to tell those of us who are just everyday
consumers of jewelry and gemstones what seems to be the only truth
we are getting these days. Mr. Rose, I want you to know someone is
listening and I hope I am not the only one. You may be surprised to
find that all of this controversy will help your business in the
end. I cannot speak for anyone else, but any future red labradorite
purchases I make will be from you.

Regarding JTV selling Andesine, Robert DeNiro as Sam "Ace"
Rothstein: Listen, if you didn't know you're bein' scammed, you're
too dumb (clean version) to keep this job. If you did know, you
were in on it. Either way, you're out. I Think JTV should give a
no-questions-asked refund to any one who wants it. It just might
keep them from visiting Classactionland.

WoWzer Chris --- We have linked to you from the Blogg. Well isn't
this a fine kettle of fish -- THAT HAS BEEN IN THE SUN (hehe) TO
LONG!

I believe this andesine/labradorite is going to turn out to be one
of the biggest scandals in modern gemstone history. There have been
plenty of red flags for a long time that the andesine/labradorite
is treated. For 100 years, the red labradorite (oregon sunstone)
from Oregon was the only known place in the world where it occured.
Doesnt anyone think its strange that in just a 2 year period, there
were suddenly new deposits found in Congo, Tibet, China, Mongolia
and in the most war torn, inaccesible place of all ________(fill in
blank). Why didnt more of the trade find it strange that there has
never been any rough whatsoever from all these supposed deposits. i
tried to get even one piece of rough from the "Tibetan mine owner"
to do some reseearch on it and I was refused. Not even a non
cuttable chip was available. Why are there no matrix specimens, no
low grade materials like any real gem mine has. Why has there not
been any visits allowed to any of these supposed mines by western
geologists who could verify the ocurrence and the geology of them.
Why did the gem authorities turn their heads from the problem for
so long? I was at a chinese red labradorite/andesine dealer at the
GJX show in Tucson. They had table after table full of thousands of
cherry red and green andesine/labradorite. I know the mine owner of
the yellow labradorite mine in Mexico. Last year, he sold over
30,000 kilos of yellow labradorite to a Chinese company. When I was
telling him about all the tables of andesine/labradorite I saw at a
chinese dealers booth. He asked me if they had any yellow
labradorite. I told him I didnt see any. He was very surprised and
then told me that very company was the one that bought all his
yellow lab. I also noticed at this booth that there were some
lighter reds as well as orangy reds and swirled watermelon like
green and red stones. They were all priced the same price per carat
regardless of color, color intensity etc. I've never seen a real
gem mine have that kind of price structure. It indicates an
attitutde that they all cost the same amount of money to produce
rather than taking into account a gemstones intrisic rarity.

Hi Chris, Thanks for the post! (For those of you who may not know
Chris, he’s the owner of High Desert Gems & Minerals, a
geologist who really knows his sunstone. Check out his website at
www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com). Well this formula sounds
similar to the one I was shown in Tucson, which then sparked a lot
of conversation in our blog posts on red andesine. I have passed
your version of the “recipe” on to Dr.s Shigley,
Rossman, and Emmett. I know they appreciate everyone’s help
with this increasingly difficult identification.

I talked to one of the people from the laboratory in Japan. This
person told me that it was copper diffusion. There was no confusion
about what copper diffusion meant with him. I told him I was hoping
they were simply heating shillers which naturally contain copper
rather than introducing foreign copper. It was very clear he was
talking about introducing foreign copper. He even described the
process that he observed in China, how they put the copper in it.
Basically, to get diffusion all the way into the stone, they have
to heat it for 30 days, after which time further diffusion is
drastically slowed and only partly into the stone because a rind
develops on the stone which prevents the further diffusing of
copper. To get around this, they take the stones out of the oven
and tumble them to get that rind off and they repeat the process 2
more times for a total heating time of 90 days.