LVMH Deals Serious Blow To Ebay

Caveat Emptor! Buyer Beware! While I enjoy looking at items on
eBay, I would never actually buy anything off of eBay. Why? I do
not buy pigs in pokes, as they say, especially when it comes to
things such as jewelry. You do not know who is at the other end of
the line, so to speak. Also, consider this: What is eBay's main
purpose? Obviously, it is to make money, preferably as fast as
possible. It is not to police the authenticity of merchandise.
Buyer Beware!

You said it Rob Bates. There are a few bad apples in the buntch and
it does worry the ones that sell ligite items on e-bay. I have
bought somethings on e-bay and they are good products. One day soon
I will be selling some stuff on e-bay hopefully. But you all should
be careful when buying gems from another country, be very cautious.
But for those contierfiters sham on you and I hope you rot in hell
for ripping off good and honest people buying products from you.
Hope they read this.

Here is another example of violation of intellectual property
rights by the scum on Ebay. A Tino Hammid photo of an EightStar
blue diamond being used to sell CZ.
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230268442871 And do
you know the run around to try get it taken down? Go Tiffany...

Fakes knock offs and fraud have no place on Ebay. Tiffany items
that are used do not have the same value as new items. Knock offs,
fakes, and fraud are from bad people. Tiffany went after the wrong
venue. Tiffany items sold through the mail, could mean that Tiffany
could sue the mails for dealing in fakes? absurd. Tiffany, rather
than go after the real thieves, shows is shallowness by shooting
the messenger not the thieves. Makes for dramatic copy, but does
little to solve the real problem. Shame on Tiffany for attacking
the marketplace and not going after those who abuse their items
with knock offs, it is a cheap shot, interesting press, but Tiffany
is shooting blanks again... sigh when will they actually go after
the crooks instead of the internet marketplace? Stupid is as stupid
does.

RE Homer commented: " Ebay is generally good about pulling down
counterfeit auctions--but you have to ask them to." Homer.. I asked
Ebay regarding this and you are correct, if you are the copyright
or trademark owner. But when I try to report an obvious fraud (and
tell them why it is obvious), I get lip service in they won't do
anything until the auction completes, and then it is up to the
buyer to complain. They make it very difficult. My contention is,
that once they are notified in writing of a (potential) fraud, they
assume partial responsibility if they don't take immediate measures
and allow the fraud to occur.

Marty, the point of the Tiffany-ebay case is that Tiffany does not
want to go to the trouble of policing ebay auctions for counterfeit
goods. Ebay has a mechanism for taking down auctions precisely
because they become liable if nothing is done. Tiffany's argument
is that ebay has to shoulder some of the effort instead of waiting
for complaints. Ebay is generally good about pulling down
counterfeit auctions--but you have to ask them to.

RE: Rob "I think it's clear that ebay does not want to assume
liability for everything it sells" Rob. I think they (Ebay) winds
up assuming liability when they are told emphatically by a
qualified individual there is a fraud going on, and they let it
happen. They supposedly let Tiffany pull thousands of auctions for
trademark violations based on their say so. Could be a interesting
test case bringing Ebay into a specific performance suit. Years
back, I and another guy on Polygon were going head to head on an
Ebay auction that turned out to be phoney. The hammer price was
seven figures.

Re: some of the points made up above -- I didn't bring this up in
my post, but the idea of people selling through unauthorized
distribution channels WAS a part of a lawsuit, and ebay lost on
that point too. Here is an angry editorial about that:
tinyurl.com/4raaxf. I don't think that will fly in the US, and
personally, I think that if someone has a genuine Rolex watch, and
wants to sell it second-hand, they should be allowed to. That is
not the same issue as someone selling counterfeit goods or
describing their products misleadingly.



I think it's clear that ebay does not want to assume liability for
everything it sells. And yet it can't go on being a clearinghouse
for counterfeits. Tiffany told me they had to hire two people to
police the site. So at some point, it becomes: who pays to police
these things -- them or ebay?



Personally, I have found many cool things on ebay -- we used to buy
vintage copies of JCK off there -- and I believe in the concept of
an open marketplace where people can sell what they want. But, as
they said in grade school, a lot of times a few bad apples spoil it
for the rest of us.

It is not only eBay that is guilty of permitting this type of
consumer faud from its sellers. There are a host of auction houses
like "bid4assets" and "Property Room Auctions Online" that host
sellers who advertise "genuine red burma rubies" which they state
in fine print down in the website, are enhanced. If any gemstone is
enhanced by heat treatment, irradiation, etc, it is not "genuine".
To advertise so is fraud! I think it is time to crack down on these
deceptions not only on eBay and the auction sites, but the infamous
TV jewelry shows. Perhaps JCK can take a lead in this effort?

Wow, got some serious issues there guys? I know people who sell on
ebay and have bought a variety of things through it, and in no way
are all or even a majority of ebay sellers scammers and fraudsters.
Ebay cannot police all of its auctions without assuming joint
liability for everything that gets sold. In other words, someone
who got ripped off (I do know people who have been) would simply
need to sue ebay instead of tracking down the actual seller. All
that said, as Oliver points out, there are serious problems in many
of the gem and jewelry listings. As for the worst of it, I'd say
it's a toss-up between how so many CZs are sold as "synthetic
diamonds" and how drilled and filled diamonds are dumped on ebay
with insufficient or nonexistent disclosure. We need to focus on
*those* kinds of issues instead of getting bent out of shape over
the way ebay has upended traditional methods of selling jewelry.

Ebay, the 47th street den of thieves souk when it comes to gems and
jewelry. They literally will do nothing unless you are a trademark
holder, if you try to report obvious fraud prior to an auction
closing. But given the dollar value to them of the average sale,
what could they reasonably be expected to do. They are between a
rock and a hardplace, unlike auction houses that see the goods.

This is a welcome decision. Ebay has become a the playground for
many who want to make a quick buck by circumventing the selectivity
of product and distribution that are the keys to success for luxury
consumer products. Either Ebay monitors itself or ensures that its
sellers operate within international law.

Ebay deserves every punishment it can get from various countries
and judges around the world it was ebay that opened the floodgates
to miljons of fraudster outfits by doing so ebay grew into the
largest counterfit and scam artist portal in the world together
with paypal the set is complete for a future disaster where all
small family companies will disapear.Ebay has become blindsided
thinking that every single seller in the site is a fraud or
criminal changing rules as they wish and without thinking about the
effects it can have on honest companies that have been in the site
since 1995. I say it is karma that plays it's ruling hand over ebay
and I support the Judges and companies that have balls big enough
to go against ebay. The end is in sight and it might provide a new
venue for some serious competition in the future. best regards Alex
theringdepot@earthlink.net

very good remarks ROB, you should nevertheless realize that the
owner of LVMH is a close friend of President Sarkozy and that,
sometimes, it is good to have the right people in the right place.
Nevertheless Ebay is making billions by having unscrupulous people
selling all kind of illegitimate products, and our industry is very
much concerned. THe way people display names "sapphires" or
"diamonds" with (sometimes) "created" written very very little
compared to the actual name of the stone should also be forbidden
for instance. THere is too much deception. I think that you should
write a column in this great JCK magazine about all these
deceptions and this should push Ebay to spend some of their money
to hire gemologists with a very good knowledge in our industry and
its rules (including the Blue Book and FTC rules), that would
overlook the content of what is sold, because we don't need more
problems that what we already have with treatments and so forth.
Best regards, Olivier Galibert ogalibert@gmail.com

I've seen a few of these counterfeit pieces, and I was stunned at
how good the copies were. The French decision is problematic, but
this does seem to be a problem unique to the internet. The problem
may be partly solved if E-bay refused to allow citizens of
countries that don't have strong enforcement of copyright and
trademark laws to participate on the site (primarily southeast
asia), but Tiffany and LVMH probably went after the only entity
that makes any sense to target in court (and they are, in fact,
accessories to fraud). Obviously, as more and more people are
getting ripped off - some sort of regulatory body will have to
dictate a remedy, but in the meantime - perhaps e-bay and the
partners at pay-pal could delay transfer of funds for a long enough
period for the goods to be verified (and keep those funds in escrow
until a dispute is resolved - releasing the monies to whoever
doesn't have the product in the end). personally - I would never
buy a "branded" watch from a provider outside the USA. That, at
least gives the consumer the benefit of U.S. consumer protection
law as a backstop to being a victim of fraud. marc ofte - ball
watch usa

One thing I've wondered about with these cases but not had the time
to research: Surely the boilerplate ebay seller agreement shifts
any liability for infringment onto the seller such that the seller
would be required to indemnify ebay for the damages? I would think
a little tweaking of the user agreement would be enough to insulate
ebay sufficiently. Granted, a lot of sellers are small-time folks
who may be effectively judgment proof, but I'd think this would be
one way out for ebay.