I talked to one of the people from the laboratory in Japan. This person told me that it was copper diffusion. There was no confusion about what copper diffusion meant with him. I told him I was hoping they were simply heating shillers which naturally contain copper rather than introducing foreign copper. It was very clear he was talking about introducing foreign copper. He even described the process that he observed in China, how they put the copper in it. Basically, to get diffusion all the way into the stone, they have to heat it for 30 days, after which time further diffusion is drastically slowed and only partly into the stone because a rind develops on the stone which prevents the further diffusing of copper. To get around this, they take the stones out of the oven and tumble them to get that rind off and they repeat the process 2 more times for a total heating time of 90 days.

Hi Chris, Thanks for the post! (For those of you who may not know Chris, he’s the owner of High Desert Gems & Minerals, a geologist who really knows his sunstone. Check out his website at www.highdesertgemsandminerals.com). Well this formula sounds similar to the one I was shown in Tucson, which then sparked a lot of conversation in our blog posts on red andesine. I have passed your version of the “recipe” on to Dr.s Shigley, Rossman, and Emmett. I know they appreciate everyone’s help with this increasingly difficult identification.

I believe this andesine/labradorite is going to turn out to be one of the biggest scandals in modern gemstone history. There have been plenty of red flags for a long time that the andesine/labradorite is treated. For 100 years, the red labradorite (oregon sunstone) from Oregon was the only known place in the world where it occured. Doesnt anyone think its strange that in just a 2 year period, there were suddenly new deposits found in Congo, Tibet, China, Mongolia and in the most war torn, inaccesible place of all ________(fill in blank). Why didnt more of the trade find it strange that there has never been any rough whatsoever from all these supposed deposits. i tried to get even one piece of rough from the "Tibetan mine owner" to do some reseearch on it and I was refused. Not even a non cuttable chip was available. Why are there no matrix specimens, no low grade materials like any real gem mine has. Why has there not been any visits allowed to any of these supposed mines by western geologists who could verify the ocurrence and the geology of them. Why did the gem authorities turn their heads from the problem for so long? I was at a chinese red labradorite/andesine dealer at the GJX show in Tucson. They had table after table full of thousands of cherry red and green andesine/labradorite. I know the mine owner of the yellow labradorite mine in Mexico. Last year, he sold over 30,000 kilos of yellow labradorite to a Chinese company. When I was telling him about all the tables of andesine/labradorite I saw at a chinese dealers booth. He asked me if they had any yellow labradorite. I told him I didnt see any. He was very surprised and then told me that very company was the one that bought all his yellow lab. I also noticed at this booth that there were some lighter reds as well as orangy reds and swirled watermelon like green and red stones. They were all priced the same price per carat regardless of color, color intensity etc. I've never seen a real gem mine have that kind of price structure. It indicates an attitutde that they all cost the same amount of money to produce rather than taking into account a gemstones intrisic rarity.

WoWzer Chris --- We have linked to you from the Blogg. Well isn't this a fine kettle of fish -- THAT HAS BEEN IN THE SUN (hehe) TO LONG!

Regarding JTV selling Andesine, Robert DeNiro as Sam "Ace" Rothstein: Listen, if you didn't know you're bein' scammed, you're too dumb (clean version) to keep this job. If you did know, you were in on it. Either way, you're out. I Think JTV should give a no-questions-asked refund to any one who wants it. It just might keep them from visiting Classactionland.

Mr. Roskin, I have seen you give kudos to JTV for finding and revealing the supposed source for their "andesine/labradorite" and advising other dealers to do the same. I have read your opinions concerning full disclosure and dealing with only verifiable, reputable mining sources. All of these things are meant to improve the image and trust factor of the gem and jewelry industry. What I have not heard you or anyone else do is hold JTV responsible for their less than sterling sales tactics or the fact that they keep selling this gemstone as rare when Mr. Rose and others keep describing the amount of material that was available at Tucson. JTV also keeps telling their customers that the yellow labradorite coming from Chihuahua Mexico is very rare and has not been seen in the industry for over thirty years until this find discovered approximately 2 years ago, etc. If you have not tuned in lately, please try to catch one of their gemstone shows, in particular one hosted by Dawn. Mr. Roskin, I know you are not the industry watch dog, but if you want to talk about improving the industry's image, perhaps some of the focus should go to the world's largest loose gemstone dealer (JTV's words). I want to thank Chris Rose and Jeff Graham for being willing to tell those of us who are just everyday consumers of jewelry and gemstones what seems to be the only truth we are getting these days. Mr. Rose, I want you to know someone is listening and I hope I am not the only one. You may be surprised to find that all of this controversy will help your business in the end. I cannot speak for anyone else, but any future red labradorite purchases I make will be from you.

There is natural red andesine or labadorite from Tibet. I did get a couple of pieces of rough from the owners of the Tibet mine last year and they gave me lots of details on production. The production figures were very small for all types of labadorite. In not way could they be the source. I have tried heating (to only aprox 800C) oregon and madagascar material and a friend has tried the same with Mexican to no avail so there has to be other methods used, possibly HTHP and or diffusion. This year 2 larger suppliers admitted to me that they "heat" the material. Basicly, in the gem trade, there are no secrets. If we can not buy rough and can not locate the mine than it does not exist. I did tell JTV last year that I believed they were being duped but they chose to ignore my warnings. I also believe that the congo location exists, and i have been told by a congolese friend that he could take me there, however politics and output does not come close to satisfying the quantity on the market today. If 1 + 1 does not equal 2 which it does not then we have a problem. By the way ... anyone try to buy large blue zircon rough lately - I am looking for a source - lots of fine blue zircon on the market in good sizes. Where does it come from?? Does 1+1=2???

for anyone that is interested, we have pictures showing yellow labradorite before treatment and then one month after copper diffussion treatment, then 2 months and finally 3 months. We also have a picture of of a flux inclusion in a faceted stone that was sold as natural and said to be from Congo. The flux went into a deep void in the stone and was not completely ground away by the faceter.

h t t p : / / w w w . jewelcutter.com/articles/images/andesine-flux-inclusion.jpg

Why blame the whistle-blower? Why not focus on companies still selling Andesine as "untreated" -- many are! Including HSN! Why is the "myspace" group JTV JUNGKIES out to ruin JTV? They are on the BLOG & will not let any other customers comment without getting harassed. Many customers in JTV FRIENDS have been harassed for appreciating the JTV announcement and still buying Andesine. Does this REALLY mean we can no longer purchase & appreciate this gem? Why is this group harassing other JTV customers as well as the group on FACEBOOK, Jewelry Television Friends? And WHY are they "taking shifts" on the Jewelry Television Blog" so that NO ONE is able to say anything but them? I am even receiving email that is abusive from the group. I'm really not certain how many Jewelry Television customers agree with them on this issue. I just purchased a gorgeous Andesine, it's beautiful & I think it's a cool color, but if I review it, I will pay for it!!!! They will make fun of & demean me on the JTV BLOG & put down a group that supports many small jewelry businesses and artisans. It's getting out of hand.

Sorry, but no one has been harrassed by MySpace group and JTV has an OPEN BLOG, where anyone can post anything. MySpace Group/Junkies only have sought to find out the truth about this gemstone and has said so many, many times. There is a post by one of them this afternoon CLEARLY stating they did NOT want this information about the andesine/labradorite to turn out to be true or to harm JTV. They are former loyal customers who wanted to find out their ole trusted JTV was right all along. Unfortunately, the information doesn't seem to lend itself to that conclusion.

I am re-posting this to the update. Gary, I don't know if you have seen it yet, but you need to check out the ISG newsletter that just came out today. Big news from Robert James about Andesine Labradorite. The newsletter was mailed to subscribers, and is not on the ISG website. If you don't get this, you can go to the JTV blog dated 4/16/08 and it is posted there. Happy reading!

SNAP SNAP SNAP---Nothing like re=running and old post with the same old stale false statements. JTV blog is open to all and is run by JTV. Dust off your WANGS and Fly Home. Gary the New information comming out is really mind boggling!!!

I agree with Snap, but I think the opposite is true. I don't post to the JTV Blog because of The JTV Friends...maybe that's what Snap meant. Their leader is a real strange bird, and I think it's her daughter that posts weird long things that you can't understand. As a matter of fact they both do. If you want to fear someone I think that's the group to be leary of. have you seen those reviews - talk about Kool-Aid drinkers!

Thank you all for your posts and your interest. Even after reading several posts on the JTV sight as you have suggested, I will still patiently await the findings from Dr. Rossman at Cal Tech, Dr. Shigley at GIA Research Lab, and Dr. Emmett, at Crystal Chemistry. While I appreciate everyone's efforts to uncover the truth about andesine, I am very interested to hear from those three doctors above who have the equipment to measure chemistry, and actually test enhancement theories. We all need a little patience - especially knowing that the enhancement recipe given was a three month process. So please, if you have andesine, wear them and enjoy them. We will certainly post any information on any findings as soon as we have something to report. And as for posting your comments here, we appreciate your contributions, but please treat everyone with respect. As I have been reminded many times, if you cannot say something nice about someone, it is best not to say anything at all. Thanks all.

Gary---isn't that the same Foxes that have watched the hen house and helped GIA through numerous SCANDALS. Perhaps the time has come for a more open process that is UNFLAVORED by the God in the Heavens Position of the GIA? What is the old saying that Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. Seems that same wait and see attitude is what enabled this industry to get in the condition that it is in. This is just a humble hobbiest/and revolted consumers opinion after 3 months of research. So in that period of time I could UNCOVER these things---Seems the others having this much time will be able to COVER things! Like there collective sitter oners!

Ahhhh....sunstone, andesine, labradorite...and mystery localities.... I've been in the gem, mining. mineral biz for over 40 years now and this is the first time I've been aware of such contraversey re: locality, treatments etal....and going on for such a long time! This is truly strange in this industry. The good news is that the Oregon Sunstone (labradorite) is totally natural with a wonderful range of colors. I work with Oregon sunstone from the Dust Devil Mine every day and never tire of its unique qualities....and NATURAL colors and copper inclusions. It is a pleasure to work with such a unique and NATURAL gem! Hopefully, in the coming months, the 'other' feldspars and the mystery locations will be figured out and the truth will surface. Bottom line....hooray for OREGON SUNSTONE! The Dust Devil Mine is open for fee dig at this time and there are some awesome RED gems being unearthed.

Hi Lili, Gemology and the identification of gemstone enhancements has become a huge challenge for the desk gemologist. It was early in this decade when the jewelry industry was flooded with incredibly beautiful sapphires, all incorrectly labeled as being only heat treated. It took several laboratories, using extremely sophisticated and very expensive pieces of equipment (AGTA, GIA, CalTech, & Chrystal Chemistry,) in order to figure out just what it was that made these sapphires so vibrantly colorful. They were identified as beryllium diffusion treated. Since then, we realize that we all must wait for those who have the equipment to do all of the testing necessary in order to come to the right conclusion. It's fun for those of us who have some gem equipment and a microscope to talk about what we've found in the andesine we've tested. But to jump to a conclusion prior to hearing from these other labs is currently not the best process. By the way, the three research laboratories currently testing andesine have not to my knowledge ever been involved in or accused of any scandals. So again, have patience. These laboratories do not buy or sell gemstones, and are only interested in finding out the truth.

Gary-Thank You For Your Response. I too hope that there are no vested interests nor conflicts of interest regarding this issue. The Science Should Be Allowed To Prevail over the necessity to buffer the industry from (Loss Of Face)! I have deep concerns over the CHINA Connection in all of this. Also---there is additional information posted as part two in the series (and is stunning) on the ISG YourGemologist Site.

OK, so I just got a pair of orangey/Red trillian cut Andesine/Labradorite on my desk to appraise and from all I've read so far here, I unclear what to call it. The owner tells me it's Tibetian although I'm extremely reluctant to write any kind of origin when I can't prove it. It may be proveable but at this time I'm unclear how. What is this worth high/low 12x12 pair? Retail/wholesale The stone appears to be SI - I1. with growth lines. Any takers?

From my sources, the final word on the orangey-red Andesine/Labradorite Feldspar is still yet to be determined. I would suggest the following: Country of Origin undeterminable. Color origin unknown. And until the verdict is in, I'm not so sure what if any affect there will be on replacement value. Since you are appraising it today, to replace it today would be values set by the wholesale selling prices seen in Tucson, along with your standard mark-up for your market. The Gem Guide should have current wholesale values for you. One comment on clarity: I have not seen any of this material with a clarity of SI-I1. You mention growth lines, and to me, this could mean uneven color instead of a clarity characteristic.